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I had originally planned to write on one of our domestic news stories here in he states: the taking down of the Confederate flag as a symbol, and its historic importance. Thus the title of the article. But watching the riveting reports on Greece’s ongoing economic situation, I was compelled to keep the title. For better or worse, it still applies.
I normally like to keep topics diverse with each Fe-911 column, but in the instance of Greece’s economic predicament and its ramifications not only in Europe but globally, I beg your indulgence as I try to remain focused.
We are all so connected in this world through our technology and, for better or worse, our economies. Keeping up on the news of the negotiations as EU nations come to grips with Greece’s bailout plan has been painful, as if we’re watching a slow-motion economic train wreck — and the varying degrees to avert it — in progress.
Yesterday, Paul Krugman’s op-ed in The New York Times summed it up:
But still, let’s be clear: what we’ve learned these past couple of weeks is that being a member of the eurozone means that the creditors can destroy your economy if you step out of line. This has no bearing at all on the underlying economics of austerity. It’s as true as ever that imposing harsh austerity without debt relief is a doomed policy no matter how willing the country is to accept suffering. And this in turn means that even a complete Greek capitulation would be a dead end.
In his editorial, Mr. Krugman pointed to the #ThisIsaCoup hashtag, popular this weekend on Twitter, Facebook and across the Web.
It came as a reaction to German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schauble’s response to the Greek bailout package worked out with the help of France and Italy, and proposed last Thursday. Schauble’s reply was that the terms of their new bailout wasn’t enough, and that Greece should sell its ports to the Luxembourg Institution for Growth, a subsidiary of the German KfW Bank where Schauble has a seat as Chairman on its Board of Directors.
A port is one of the mainstays of a stable economy for any city or country, ancient or modern. It is a basic foundation upon which you build a city or country. Selling off a port is tantamount to a country cutting off its legs.
Fortunately, after 17 hours of sometimes contentious negotiations, at least that part of the deal was taken off the table. But further austerity measures remain part of the new deal, and Greece may have to sell its electrical utilities to a private entity. As reported by the BBC, these terms are somewhat worse than the one Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’ government refused earlier this spring.
What remains now is that Tsipras has to bring this proposed solution back to his Parliament for a vote. Some members of his own Syriza party are against further cuts to pensions and increased taxes. Which means that the one thing the European Commission does not want to happen and tried to avoid with their prolonged negotiations — ‘Grexit’ (‘Greek’ + ‘exit’) — may still come into play.
There are still more critical days ahead, and as Eric has written today about the New Moon in Cancer square Eris on Wednesday — by which time Greece’s Parliament will have voted on the deal — these days should prove quite interesting.
Should Parliament vote “yes” to the new bailout agreement, there remains a strong likelihood that Greece could still buckle under its conditions. If they vote “no” and a Grexit ensues, the EU as currently comprised could collapse. Either will have a ripple effect on our own economy.
Whatever happens when Parliament takes up the vote, the shifts could be geopolitical. It could be a taking down, but of who: Greece or the EC? We have yet to see. Let us focus our intent that the results of proceedings these next few days are the best for everyone involved.
Because news information comes from sources with agendas that are mixed, and sometimes suspect, I invite all our Planet Waves members from across the globe to chime in to help us flesh out this story and bring other perspectives. Flawed or correct, this is just my American view, skewed slightly left. Looking forward to meeting you below in the comments.
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I imagine the average citizens of other countries in the EU bear no ill will towards Greece. The banks on the other hand are the real criminals here, as demonstrated by the behavior of Herr Schauble.
Former Greece Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis speaks out about the agreement.
Another great article on Tsipras by Alex Andreou here:
Coming to the end of another long and finally out of control debt expansion. Contraction of the money supply is inevitable and so debt will shrink in the future. It always does one way or the other.
Paraphrasing something Jefferson said was that central bankers will through inflation and then deflation come to own everything. We really fucked up when we allowed them in again in 1913.
I live in Illinois and our state is in real fiscal trouble so I see some of the writing on the wall. Pensions for state workers are so lucrative that the state cant pay them anymore but nothing can actually be done about it unless the State declares bankruptcy. Looking at that scenario is frightening.
We can’t help but feel the pain and fear the citizens of Greece are feeling. There for the Grace of Goddess go I, though I’m sure many of them don’t understand how it has come to this. I know I don’t have a good grasp on it myself. I’m not sure how much their votes can affect how the Greek government runs the affairs of state, or how much it has done so in the past. What I do have a grasp of is how astrological symbols play out in real life.
The news that Greeks had a retirement age of 45 and that this contributed to the country’s financial problems – paying retirement to people who have only worked 30 to 35 years total – startled me, but I know better then to take this report at face value. Since this latest chart for Greece is only 41 years old, I assume the retirement age was determined sometime after this. The Greek birth chart (July 1974) has a square (challenge) between its Venus (personal wealth and comfort) in Cancer in the 12th house and it’s Pluto (shared resources) in Libra in the 3rd house. The Greek Pluto is exactly conjunct the Greek Moon, both at 4+ Libra. The Moon is a symbol of The People, right?
Possibly these burdensome financial problems began to surface (become public) when transiting Pluto reached 4+ Capricorn and transiting Saturn reached 4+ Libra in January-February 2010. Transiting Uranus would have been on the midheaven (MC) of the Greek chart at that time. Also at that time transiting Chiron was conjunct transiting Neptune at 25+ Aquarius (sextile Greek natal Chiron in Aries, opposite Greek natal Mars in Leo and trine Greek natal Uranus in Libra)
Trans. Uranus (on Greek MC) and trans. Neptune (+Chiron who were both aspecting the Greek Chiron, Mars and Uranus) from the Greek chart’s 8th house (shared resources) were in mutual reception. Transiting Uranus and Neptune (+ Chiron) were in partnership
The Greek chart’s sextile between Mars in Leo (2nd house of values) and Uranus in Libra (Greek 4th house of history) would have created a Yod to the transiting Uranus in Pisces on the Greek MC(the end result). Along comes transiting Saturn (retrograde) now in Virgo, having left his conjunction to the Greek Pluto-Moon in Libra (that squared the Greek Venus) to oppose trans. Uranus on the Greek MC. That would have been in late April, 2010. This was followed by trans. Uranus’ move in to Aries, squaring the Greek Venus in Cancer and opposing the Greek Pluto-Moon during 2011, and making a station retrograde opposite the Greek Moon-Pluto (square Venus).
All very tiresome to unravel, but there it is. The Greek Tragedy that surfaced into consciousness 5 years ago has developed into this calamitous World Precipice we all stand at the edge of. And it is primarily the outer planets that brought us there, or shoved us to that point. I guess it had to be someone, and that someone was Greece. We are all in it together though, and everyone wonders “what next”?
It will probably take a while but eventually I suspect we will all be on a new currency. It could start as soon as transiting Saturn returns to Sagittarius and trines the Greek natal Sun at 0+ Leo this September. That will be followed by a total lunar eclipse at 4+ Aries, with the Sun at 4+ Libra, conjunct the Greek natal Pluto-Moon conjunction. Transiting Uranus (19+ Aries) then will be opposite Greek natal Vesta (invested in) at 19+ Libra, and trans. Neptune (7+ Pisces in the 9th house of tourists) will be square the Greek natal Neptune (7+ Sagittarius). Perhaps the end of a bad, bad dream.
Transiting Saturn will reach the same degree of the Greek natal Neptune in late November this year, just as transiting (direct) Pluto crosses the Greek chart’s descendant (13+ Capricorn) and is about to make a sextile to the Greek natal Ceres (14+ Pisces); just in time for the USA Thanksgiving. I’m trying to think positive.
be
Be:
Yep, the Greeks are paying for the misappropriations and misuse of EU loan money, starting back in 2000 and into their second debt loan in 2010, and to add insult to injury, the plutocrats who ran off with the money has “socialized” the debt. This is the Cheneyfication of a country’s economy, and the people holding the bag. Quite a ripe time for the people to exit a situation.
I am curious about your reading — looks like printing money may be the next thing, maybe the only thing. I am also wondering if the Saturn-Neptune situation is about a fuel crisis — meaning no heating gas for the winter. Europe may be in for a humanitarian disaster if their cruel taskmasters aren’t brought to bear on the results of their “coup”.
Could be Fe, although re: transiting Pluto at 13+ Capricorn on the Greek descendant (again) made me wonder if Russia, with its natal Neptune also at 13+ Capricorn, might be involved (descendant being the 7th house cusp meaning partners and open enemies.) Wouldn’t it be a feather in Putin’s cap if he could make Germany et al look “bad” (lack of compassion?)
Some in-depth study of various charts would reveal much I’m sure, but looking (only) at the Fall Equinox chart (coming between 2 eclipses!) set for Athens, with its 0+ Virgo MC square 0+ Sagittarius Saturn in the 1st house looks austere. It belies the fact that the Equinox 0+ Sagittarius Saturn is sextile the Equinox 0+ Libra Sun.
Greece’s natal Sun at 0+ Leo should benefit from its trine to the Equinox Saturn and sextile the Equinox Sun, and as well, from the Equinox Mars at 28+ Leo conjunct the Greek Mars at 27+ Leo. Will that energy cause revolution or a resurgence of productivity, I don’t know.
The fact that the Greek Moon (+ Pluto) at 4+ Libra is only 4 degrees away from the Equinox Sun is hopeful, and the Equinox Moon (I guess would symbolize all the People all over the world) will be at 24+ Capricorn. For the Greek citizens that Moon will form a T-square to Greece’s chart opposition between Chiron at 24+ Aries and Uranus at 23+ Libra, a decisive position. Will they choose to support the pain and healing (Chiron) or the revolution-breakthrough (Uranus) option? Time will tell.
Once the influence of this Equinox chart has passed, transiting Uranus will reach a powerful station retrograde at 24+ Aries, conjunct the Greek chart’s Chiron and opposite the Greek chart’s Uranus (23 Libra). That will be in July, 2016. We would need to look to the Summer Solstice chart for clues as to how this might play out.
Cheneyfication, that’s good!
be
Greece’s natal Sun at 0+ Leo should benefit from its trine to the Equinox Saturn and sextile the Equinox Sun, and as well, from the Equinox Mars at 28+ Leo conjunct the Greek Mars at 27+ Leo. Will that energy cause revolution or a resurgence of productivity, I don’t know.
Be:
0 + Anaretic degrees — does that mean something ending as something else begins?
Fe, I’m no authority on anaretic degrees, but yes, solstice and equinox degrees (always at 0 of a sign) signal the start of a new period. The zero degree of any sign is the purest expression of that sign. The anaretic degrees are the last degree (29+) of a sign, and a symbolic ending. Although many consider this a weak or hesitant position for a planet, I’ve not found that to be true. But Greece doesn’t have any 29+ degree natal planets, at least among the major planets.
The Zero degree Sun in Leo, as I noted recently, is special. It is the same place where transiting Mars stationed direct and where it remained for many, many days a few weeks before the Gulf of Mexico oil explosion in 2010. I personally believe it was the time when whatever went wrong under the deep water started. Here again is that Sabian Symbol. . .
BLOOD RUSHES TO A MAN’S HEAD AS HIS VITAL ENERGIES ARE MOBILIZED UNDER THE SPUR OF AMBITION. (An irruption of bio-psychic energies into the ego-controlled field of consciousness)
The Zero plus degree of Leo seems to be a point where higher conscious eneries can enter the primary level of consciousness of we mere mortals utilize and awaken or stimulate a more profound understanding of events. In this case the country Greece, in it’s present incarnation (Sun at 0+ Leo) as well as it’s distant past (Zeus et al), serves humanity as would a myth (Icarus, who flew too high was at 0+ Aquarius opposite the Sun at the time of Greece’s latest birth). It is a lesson, easily understood by most, that can profit us all by studying.
The natal Greek Karma at 28+ Taurus is opposite where transiting Saturn is and will station direct next month. We are all here to serve in some way, ain’t we?
be
be
Fe I hope I’m not in a class of one here – i found this song this morning and offer it to Greece! Or some of the laughter anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM
(weaving straw into gold. Or in this case c**p into platinum)
If Greece left the euro unilaterally (say their parliament rejects the terms and conditions) would there be a war? Would there be sanctions imposed on Greece? What would happen to their debt. What if they were to say we will pay back the capital and inflation.
The parlous state of Europes’ banking systems is not Greece’s sole (or even first?) responsibility? And if Greece is being made a fall guy they might be within their rights to state that and leave.
If Europe is afraid that Italy and Ireland and Spain will demand haircuts and debt rescheduling too, perhaps Greece can ask them one by one if their economies are strong enough to carry on now without special favours.
There is also the German debt after the war which was cut, and Greece not receiving their war damages. Thes might also be ‘reasons’ for giving a ‘one off’ package to Greece.
It feels fundamentally wrong to me to demand that a country sell off its assets. Better explain to the people that x needs to be raised and so a levy of y is going to be asked of each person of voting age. On a sliding scale if you like.
What about the orthodox church. If they own so much how much is their revenue – is it enough to pay all their people (who are currently paid by the state) and after that is there a surplus that could be given to save Greece. The church also doesnot pay taxes (does it?).
I heard a story (I can’t back it up) about a couple of Germans on holiday in Greece who had worked out their percentage of the war debt and gave it to the local Mairie in cash.
None of this is very erudite
Sorry if my levity hit a bum note – players will be players haters will be haters – I’m going to be different etc etc It worked for me but I know I’m often off key!
xxxp
Pam:
What interests me about all of this is the largeness of the planetary aspects. A number of game changers out there, even as we speak. US-Iran deal, looking at Pluto for the first time, the only thing one could ask, which always leads to a pie in the face or a sudden hurricane OR a shower of puppies is: “What could happen next?”
I’m glad too that the sky isn’t ‘locked’ Fe
xxxp
Witnessing this, even from the United States, is somewhat surreal. The idea of Greece’s ports being seized is an eye-opener. I’m glad that didn’t go through. I just wonder how much of the creditors’ demands are just for show, to keep up appearances that the mighty EU, and its financiers will come get you if you owe them money. I wonder if Greece not paying back their creditors would even have a negative impact on even just one single person in the EU, or any of the citizens in the other countries. If Greece doesn’t pay back a single dime, who really takes a hit? Will they even feel the hit, will it really even hurt all that much? Is it worth what the people of Greece are going through? I doubt it.
I don’t know Michael.
At this point, economic warfare is just as bad as military. Only infrastructure is in place and the pillaging focuses solely on assets. Its unbelievable what the EU is demanding, and if I were Spain, Italy, France an Portugal, I would think long and hard about membership and develop a quick exit plan. This is not a United Europe. This is the banks owning a continent.
Here we go:
http://news.yahoo.com/greece-revolt-over-austerity-deal-185710332.html
and here:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/199494/article/ekathimerini/business/secret-imf-report-shows-greece-needs-debt-relief-far-beyond-eu-plans
Then they need to call on their own people to stand with them – the orthodox church (in Christian charity if not for love of Greece, or is the church now led by rice christians who value money over faith) and the oligarchs (I forgot the oligarchs). What manner of person puts maximising their already vast wealth in the financial insititutions of other countries (possibly the same countries bringing Greece to her knees) when the country of their birth, their roots, the culture that has made them who they are is being brought to her knees before their very eyes.
Or you take away their citizenship. All of them (Oligarch’s and Orthodox).. Tell hem that if they do not pull together with Greece in her hour of need they cannot be greek afterwards, they should be too ashamed and if they are not they will be cast out. (And that (loosely not the casting out bit) was Bonhoeffer’s position).
Outrageous. Shameful
perhaps it is not possible to decide for another but there must be a way to make them hesitate, to see what they are not seeing
outrageous and shameful (to your two links there Fe)
Perhaps the rich are just glad to be not poor, and the orthodox are too unwordly, but it is still a shame if your own people won’t help you in extremis.
It’s a good cause…
(sorry for the outburst!)
and in that case (glad not to be poor unworldly) invite them to participate and see what happens…
Here we go, kids. Way to go New Moon!
From The Telegraph UK:
The International Monetary Fund has set off a political earthquake in Europe, warning that Greece may need a full moratorium on debt payments for 30 years and perhaps even long-term subsidies to claw its way out of depression.
“The dramatic deterioration in debt sustainability points to the need for debt relief on a scale that would need to go well beyond what has been under consideration to date,” said the IMF in a confidential report.
Greek public debt will spiral to 200pc of GDP over the next two years, compared to 177pc in an earlier report on debt sustainability issued just two weeks ago.
The findings are explosive. The document amounts to a warning that the IMF will not take part in any EMU-led rescue package for Greece unless Germany and the EMU creditor powers finally agree to sweeping debt relief.
This vastly complicates the rescue deal agreed by eurozone leaders in marathon talks over the weekend since Germany insists that the bail-out cannot go ahead unless the IMF is involved.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11739985/IMF-stuns-Europe-with-call-for-massive-Greek-debt-relief.html
Finally got to read this whole piece Fe, and thanks, I’ve not seen it anywhere else. Quoting from the article. . “It [the IMF] claimed that capital controls and the shutdown of the Greek banking system had entirely changed the picture for debt dynamics, an implicit criticism of both the Greek government and the eurozone authorities for letting the political DISPUTE GET OUT OF HAND.”
This is reflected in the Saturn Ingress Chart (10/5/12) by the Moon-Jupiter (the People are overextended) conjunction opposite Pholus (small cause, big effect GETTING OUT OF HAND) aspect pattern which is very close to the Greek chart (July 1974) nodes of the Moon. The Moon-Jupiter in the Saturn chart conjuncts the Greek south node (release) and the Pholus in the Saturn chart conjuncts the Greek north node (path forward.)
This makes me think that the Greek situation is the transition (Greek nodes and Saturn chart’s noted opposition are in the transitional signs of Gemini and Sagittarius) period in between an intransigent (fixed sign) position and a New Start (cardinal sign) in the world financial picture.
The Saturn ingress chart opposition would fall in the Greek chart’s 12th house (Moon-Jupiter) of disintegration/retreat and the 6th house (Pholus) of health/repair, reiterating the transitional theme. The big brouhaha then, Pholus, is in the Greek 6th house of repair.
As the month began the transiting north node (path forward) was at 4+ Libra and conjunct the Greek chart’s Moon-Pluto conjunction at 4+ Libra. The north node (path forward) of the Saturn ingress Scorpio chart at 26+ Scorpio was conjunct Mars (action) at 29+ Scorpio and now transiting Saturn (containment, giving form) will be stationing right between them in a couple of weeks.
So, not only has the Saturn ingress Scorpio chart helped me understand the underpinnings of the Iran Nuclear Deal, it has shown me that this Greek financial fiasco is a necessary (albeit a tragic) event in a much larger worldwide transition regarding money. Perhaps I should start right now studying the Saturn Ingress Sagittarius chart!
be
Wow Be:
Saturn in Sag falls right in the comfort zone of nuclear power and big money. I look forward to your analysis on these big picture planets. They so inform my work!!
That is gratifying to know Fe, thank you. I can tell you that the Saturn stay in Sagittarius looks to rely a lot on Venus and her Golden Touch. She’s near the IC in the chart for Washington DC, and she squares the Scorpio Moon, trines Uranus in Aries and sextiles Mercury who is in her sign of Libra. Saturn himself at 0 Sagittarius is sextile the north node at 0 Libra and trine the south node at 0 Aries, but no major aspects with major planets.
I’ve not pulled in the minor bodies yet but can see the chart has a Locomotive pattern with Venus in the Engine or lead position. This means that there is an empty trine (no major planets in Taurus, Gemini or Cancer). Marc E. Jones says the empty space vs. the occupied space is what gives this pattern its “eccentric balance”. He says “The power lies in the disproportion of these two parts” and there is a “strong sense of a lack or a need, of a problem to be solved, a task to be achieved in the social and intellectual world around [the owner of the chart, in this case Saturn].” That from his book titled The Guide To Horoscope Interpretation.
A big clue to the period of Saturn’s stay in Sagittarius could be between the old and new rulers of Pisces, Neptune in Pisces opposite Jupiter in Virgo, both of which square the U.S. Sibly chart’s Uranus in Gemini. Also intriguing, both the Saturn ingress chart and the U.S. Sibly have the same ascendant-descendant sign degrees, but they are reversed . . 12+ Gemini rising in the ingress chart, 12+ Sagittarius on the descendant. Could be an emphasis on partnership maybe?
The Sabian symbol for Venus (ruler of Libra, sign of partnership) in the Saturn Ingress chart is A VOLUNTEER CHURCH CHOIR SINGING RELIGIOUS HYMNS “The feeling of togetherness which unites men and women in their dedication to a collective ideal” Keyword: Togetherness
I remain hopeful and when the time is right (stuff happens) I’ll be in touch!
be
Great Fe! Guess what, when you posted this news the Moon (feeling) was at 11+ Cancer, where the Greek birth chart’s Saturn (backbone) is. Transiting Mercury (news) at 12+ Cancer and Mars (exciting) at 13+ Cancer tells the rest of the story. Thanks for sharing the news.
be
Love it, Be!
These days are on such an exciting edge. It’s an amazing feeling of watching the world turn minute by minute!!
Fe
Let’s put on the table that Alexis Tsipras is a Leo I28th July, 1974). Year of the Tiger. He fought like a lion…indeed
Kelly:
Tsipras not only is fighting like a lion, he, Hollande and the IMF are tearing the happy face off of Brussels and the EZ. They knew the deal they proposed would turn Greece into a European failed state. Check out The Guardian UK on line. Their timeline of events shows what’s happening in Europe — from Athens to London — right now. Looks pretty wild to me.
Hello Pluto!! Ye the planet of ‘change or die’ in Capricorn!! (Government and banks). Tsipras may be feeling the Uranus and Jupiter fire trine as well!
‘Be’ noted above that ”The Greek birth chart (July 1974) has a square (challenge) between its Venus (personal wealth and comfort) in Cancer in the 12th house and it’s Pluto (shared resources) in Libra in the 3rd house. The Greek Pluto is exactly conjunct the Greek Moon, both at 4+ Libra. The Moon is a symbol of The People, right?”
Therefore the Greek birth chart is conjunct Tsipras Sun.
How does this play out?
Great catch Kelly! If that is Tsipras birth date – 7/28/74, then he was born 4 days after this latest “birthday” for Greece , 7/24/74, so they share the same position for many of the slower moving planets. His Sun at 4+ Leo (I’m looking at an ephemeris so no exact positions) does sextile the Pluto-Moon conjunction at 4+ Libra in the Greek birth chart. He seems born to fulfil this role – it’s in his blood, and an exact chart would be fascinating I bet. His Moon is either in Scorpio (possibly where transiting Saturn is right now) or Sagittarius.
be