The Interpersonal Level

Posted by Len Wallick


A concentration of visible planets setting after the Sun right now is indicative of something larger and deeper. Today, Len Wallick traces our current astrology back to the dynamic between Jupiter and Saturn, and how that relationship is presently being reflected both on you and in the world.

If you consider the distribution of sign-ruling planets, it’s evident that the zodiac is rather lopsided right now. Today the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Pluto are all clustered in either Sagittarius (ruled by Jupiter) or Capricorn (ruled by Saturn). That’s just one-sixth of the sky. But wait, there’s more.


Throw in Mars in Aquarius (traditionally ruled by Saturn, now co-ruled by Uranus), and Neptune in its modern Pisces domain (originally ruled by Jupiter) and you have eight of the ten sign-rulers in just one single quadrant of the zodiac.

The other two are Jupiter and Uranus. Jupiter is ensconced in Libra (ruled by Venus, which is now moving through Capricorn) until late next year. Uranus, for its part, is doing a significant deed with Eris in Aries (ruled by Mars). In other words, by either direct location or symbolic association, the roads being traced by the most astrologically significant objects in the solar system all lead back to either Jupiter or Saturn at this time. It is a situation that will continue through the end of this year and well into the 2017.

Jupiter and Saturn have an interesting relationship. You might consider them to be complementary, but on a different level from the very personal yin-yang dynamic that the relationship between Venus and Mars represents. When you consider both their size and orbital periods Jupiter and Saturn are evidently emblematic of something bigger and more enduring than purely personal concerns.

You would not be wrong to label Jupiter and Saturn interpersonal planets, corresponding to the concerns of entire generations. Jupiter, in the words of Robert Hand, “is a planet of growth and enlargement.” Its downside is excess.

Although ancient astrological tradition is not as kind to Saturn as it is to Jupiter, it also has a very real upside having to do with definition and structure. On its better-known downside, Saturn correlates with confinement and oppression. When their upsides are emphasized and in balance with each other, Jupiter and Saturn combine to represent the characteristics of both a healthy life and a functional society: enough expansiveness to be inclusive and enough structure to hold together.

When the downsides of Jupiter and Saturn are emphasized, or when they are out of balance with each other, things tend to get dysfunctional. That’s where you come in. It is people, both separately and collectively, who decide how and when to assert the combined qualities of Jupiter and Saturn. If you look at your life right now, you will probably see Jupiter and Saturn operating together for better or worse. Simply being aware means you can act as a moderating influence if necessary.

On the larger, interpersonal scale of current events, it is abundantly clear that the combined natures of Saturn and Jupiter are both evident and in need of moderation. Principles of inclusiveness are taking a beating. Where structure is not falling apart, it is serving to confine rather than helping to define vast numbers of people. Excess is everywhere. Simply being aware of those dysfunctions also serves as a guide towards which actions would be most timely and efficacious.

Weather permitting, the current distribution of visible planets makes for some good astronomical viewing, especially in the western sky just after dark. Astrologically, the picture is both bigger and deeper. Beyond the current symbolic dominance of Jupiter and Saturn, there is something more — a clear indication that simply looking on will not function to change anything at all.

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Posted in Columnist on | 8 comments
Len Wallick

About Len Wallick

Besides endeavoring to be of service to all of you here at Planet Waves, Len strives to live in Seattle while working as a professional astrologer. To contact him for an astrology reading you can send an e-mail to: His telephone number is 206-356-5467. In addition to his profession, Len contributes to the Seattle community without monetary compensation by serving as a Reiki practitioner and teacher through classes and outreach offered by the Seattle Reiki Mastery Series modality.

8 thoughts on “The Interpersonal Level

  1. aWord

    And despite the near equal parting of the nation vis-a-vis election results, the world feels more than a bit lopsided now too, Len. “Where structure is not falling apart, it is serving to confine rather than helping to define vast numbers of people.” No doubt, many of us are feeling this today. May the force be with us.

  2. Geoff Marsh

    Fortunately, not every country is politically in-step and making a right-wing right-turn right now.

    Austria, Adolf Hitler’s home turf, has today chosen a former leader of the Green Party as its president. Independent candidate Alexander Van der Bellen is currently leading Norbert Hofer of the anti-immigration Freedom Party by 53%-46% in the country’s referendum, with some postal votes still to be counted.

    “Freedom” seems to me such an iconically Aquarian word that it really annoys when fascists claim it for their own, no doubt in a smugly ironic way. Freedom from what and for whom, exactly?

    Not, I daresay, that Aquarians can’t have a deal of right-wingery in their armoury, it’s just that … well, you know, Age of … and everything. Can anyone ever take goose-stepping seriously after the Ministry of Silly Walks?

    Peace and love, particularly to the original justice department of North Dakota at this time.

  3. LizzyLizzy

    Ah Geoff dear. As you see, the No vote got through here – it’s what I wanted, because the reforms were a total farce, and some of them could have caused real harm (no time to go into it right now) – but I have a sinking heart as to what happens next – with all the worst political scum of Italy rising to the surface – vying to take the Prime Minister’s, Renzi, place. Even the ghastly Berlusconi is back. And the only decent leader Italy had right now was Renzi – which tells you all you need to know. The silly jerk has gone the way of Cameron. Oy vey….. xxx

  4. Geoff Marsh

    Scum, like cream, rises to the surface, Lizzy. The secret lies in being able to tell the difference and discriminating against the dross. Discrimination: during the last half-century, it’s something that we may have taught ourselves it’s wrong to do. Maybe it’s now time to learn to be less indiscriminate instead.

    The unsolved problem for me is: How does a democracy respond to the rise of a fascist group which would deny democracy the right to exist without denying fascists the right of self-expression?

  5. LizzyLizzy

    Very good point, dear Geoff – which strikes at the heart of what this referendum was about. The current Italian constitution was written at the end of 1947 – and it was written in way that would prevent a fascist leader from ever becoming so powerful again. These reforms would have changed all that. Those who voted Yes clamoured on about needing change – without seeing the sinister truth that was hidden behind these reforms. I’d rather have Renzi still running the country, and the thought of these fascist/populist politicians getting in makes me ill – but at least once they’ve served their term they’re out (and being Italy, they probably wouldn’t get to serve the whole term, either…).

  6. Geoff Marsh

    Lizzy: Your description of the Italian constitution reminds me of the raison d’├¬tre of the European Union: Never again should the nations of Europe fight each other. Sadly, Churchill couldn’t stomach it being called the Treaty of Rome – the Italians were on the losing side, after all – so Britain watched European integration from the sidelines as post-war economics dictated the disposal of its empire.

    We were Europe’s offshore island, after all, so safe in our special relationship and the sharing of a common language with America the Mighty. The 21 miles of the English Channel had saved us from invasion by Hitler and it would now protect us from the hideous prospect of integration with “Johnny Foreigner”. And then we built a tunnel instead of a wall.

    To my mind, Brexit and the resurgence of nationalism represent Hitler’s Last Hurrah. It is an attempt to re-capture the ‘glorious’ memory of what it meant to be British by those who are old enough to remember the days before World War II. They would take us back to a time before all this European nonsense with its tower of Babel discord and medieval intrigues. Instead, they have made Britain a pawn in the game of those superpowers who would prefer not to have a strong Europe to deal with when conducting their foreign policies.

    The anti-Europeans achieved their aims too early, too easily and weren’t prepared for their success. After winning the referendum, they had no idea what to do next, no plan to lead Britain forward in its great new adventure on the world stage. Nigel Farage declared his work with Ukip was done and he wished to leave politics and “get his life back”. Boris Johnson was left bobbing in a sea of dither and was only rescued from the fate of a drowning clown by the backroom boys of the Conservative Party who had no choice other than to rescue their next Prime Minister by suggesting Theresa May make him Foreign Secretary. Ukip had been encouraged by these same Tories because it provided a right-wing threat which would make their own party look much more acceptably middle-of-the-road.

    The comic capers of these fragrant fascists may seem a little less than threatening at the present moment. I fear, though, that there may soon be a time when the purveyors of power create the right image and attitude to persuade us to accept their demigod. Who knows, Donald Trump might be it. Vladimir Putin obviously does it for the Russian psyche.

  7. LizzyLizzy

    Yes, Never again was at the heart of the Italian Constitution, as with the establishment of the EU. Really Interesting post, dear Geoff – which I only have time to read quickly right now. But I look forward to reading it with care later. xxx

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